3.2 Administration of the Oath-of-Office and presentation of the Certificate-of-Election to elected councilmembers for Place Nos. 4 and 6.

[6.1 Adopt a Resolution establishing rates and fees for commercial and residential solid waste, recycling and household hazardous waste services.]

NEXT, WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM 6.1 ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS TO ADOPT A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING RATES AND FEES FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL SOLID WASTE RECYCLING AND HOUSEHOLD HAZARDOUS WASTE SERVICES.

WE HAVE OUR DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY SERVICES, STEVE MASSEY. GOOD EVENING, STEVE.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR FULK.

THIS IS MY 21ST CONSECUTIVE YEAR COMING BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL AT THE SECOND MEETING IN MAY TO TALK ABOUT RATE ADJUSTMENTS FOR WASTE SERVICES IN THE CITY OF ALLEN.

ONE YEAR IT ACTUALLY WENT DOWN 0.6 PERCENT AND THE HIGHEST RATE WE'VE EVER FACED AS AN INCREASE IN THE CONTRACT WITH COMMUNITY WASTE DISPOSAL WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS 4.4 PERCENT INCREASE.

EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THE RATE OF INFLATION AND THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX HAS MADE THIS PARTICULAR YEAR MORE COMPLICATED AND DIFFICULT FOR US TO CONSIDER AN APPROPRIATE CONSUMER PRICE INCREASE FOR CWD.

I'M SURE YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN THAT GREG REIMER, PRESIDENT OF COMMUNITY WASTE DISPOSAL IS WITH US, AND ROBERT MEDIGOVICH, THE MUNICIPAL COORDINATOR IS ALSO WITH US.

THEY'RE AVAILABLE AS A RESOURCE BUT DON'T HAVE A PRESENTATION TONIGHT.

BUT OF COURSE, THEY HAVE THE PRESENTATION THAT JASON REDMOND GAVE TWO WEEKS AGO TO THE COUNCIL.

RATES AND FEES. OUR CURRENT CONTRACT WITH CWD RUNS THROUGH MAY OF 2024.

OUR LAST RESIDENTIAL RATE INCREASE, MEANING THE COST WE CHARGE THE CITIZENS OF ALLEN WENT UP IN JUNE 2010.

THERE'S BEEN AND THERE WILL BE NO RATE INCREASES PROPOSED IN THE RATE RESOLUTION THAT WE HAVE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.

THE LAST COMMERCIAL RATE INCREASE WAS 3.2 PERCENT OF JUNE 1ST LAST YEAR.

THE ENTERPRISE FUND REMAINS IN GOOD SHAPE WITH A GOOD FUND BALANCE AND A HEALTHY DAYS OF RESERVE.

THE CURRENT CWD CONTRACT ALLOWS FOR FIVE PERCENT CONSUMER PRICE INDEX ADJUSTMENT ANNUALLY.

IN 21 YEARS IT'S NEVER EXCEEDED THAT FIVE PERCENT LEVEL.

THE CONTRACT ALSO ALLOWS FOR A HIGHER INCREASE DUE TO UNFORESEEABLE COST IMPACTS AND THOSE UNFORESEEABLE COST IMPACTS HAPPENED IN THE LAST YEAR BECAUSE WE FOUND OUT THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR CPI FOR DALLAS-FORT WORTH-ARLINGTON WENT UP NINE PERCENT, WHICH IS FOUR PERCENT ABOVE WHAT THEY COULD TYPICALLY ASK FOR.

THEY DID, AS A PROVISION OF THE CONTRACT, THEY SENT A LETTER TO CITY COUNCIL AND ASKED FOR A HIGH RATE ADJUSTMENT, AND THEY DID SUBMIT A LETTER AND GAVE A BRIEFING TO COUNCIL IN WORKSHOP TWO WEEKS AGO, AND THEY DISCUSSED THEIR DESIRE TO GET A FULL NINE PERCENT RATE INCREASE RATHER THAN THE CAP AT THE FIVE PERCENT LIMIT.

NOW, THIS IS A CHART THAT TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE CITY PAYS COMMUNITY WASTE DISPOSAL, NOT WHAT RESIDENTS PAY THE CITY.

DON'T GET CONFUSED BY WHAT'S ON IT.

WE START ON THE LEFT WITH THE TRASH COST.

THAT'S ONE TRASH CART, ONE RECYCLE CART.

THE CITY NOW PAYS CWD 8.58, AND THEN YOU CAN SEE IN THE THREE COLUMNS WHAT WE WOULD PAY THEM AT FIVE, SEVEN, OR NINE PERCENT CPI.

THE SECOND LINE IS FOR SECOND TRASH CART AND THE THIRD LINE IS FOR SECOND RECYCLED CART.

IF WE STUCK WITH A FIVE PERCENT INCREASE AND LIMITED CWD TO THAT, OUR COST TO THE FUND OF THE NEXT YEAR WOULD GO UP $173,880.

USUALLY, WHEN I'M DOING THIS, THAT COST IS ABOUT $60,000.

A SEVEN PERCENT CPI WOULD TAKE THE COST OF THE CITY PAYING CWD UP $242,000 AND NINE PERCENT $311,000.

I SHOW THE RATES OF THE NORTH TEXAS MUNICIPAL WATER DISTRICT SOLID WASTES FAMILY, THE FIVE-MEMBER CITIES BECAUSE DISPOSAL COST PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN WHAT THE COST FOR THE WASTE SERVICES IS AND ALL OF US PAY THE SAME COST FOR WASTE DISPOSAL FROM MUNICIPAL WATER DISTRICT, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT AMONG THE MEMBER CITIES RIGHT NOW, WE'RE THE LOWEST OF ALL THE MEMBER CITIES IN OUR CHARGES TO CUSTOMERS.

>> SOME OF THOSE CITIES THEY PROVIDE THEIR OWN TRASH SERVICES; IS THAT CORRECT?

[00:50:01]

>> THIS IS A DIFFICULT ITEM TO COMPARE.

RICHARDSON WHO'S THE HIGHEST STILL DOES REAR LOAD TWICE A WEEK AND THAT IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN AUTOMATED SIDE LOADERS ONCE A WEEK.

IT'S DIFFICULT TO COMPARE, BUT THESE ARE THE ACTUAL RATES, AND PROBABLY COMPARING DATA AVERAGE IS THE MOST REASONABLE THING TO DO.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT HEALTHY, THE FUN WOULD BE THROUGH THE END OF FY21.

WE WILL BE DISCUSSING THE NEED FOR A RESIDENTIAL RATE INCREASE DURING THE UPCOMING FY23 BUDGET PROCESS, WHICH TAKES PLACE IN AUGUST WITHIN THE CITY THIS YEAR.

WE HAVE A SENIOR DISCOUNT PROGRAM FOR SENIORS OVER 65.

STARTED IN 2016, THAT'S A 20 PERCENT DISCOUNT ON WASTE SERVICES AND HOUSEHOLD HAZARDOUS WASTE.

3,075 SENIORS ARE NOW IN THE PROGRAM, THAT'S UP 150 FROM A YEAR AGO.

THE ANNUAL COST SAVINGS PER YEAR IS $115,000 AT THIS POINT.

COMMERCIAL. CWD BILLS COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, AND THEY SEND TO THE CITY THE DISPOSAL PORTION, THE COST FOR THE NORTH TEXAS LANDFILL COMES BACK TO THE SOLID WASTE FUND.

WE ESSENTIALLY TAKE THAT MONEY AND TRANSFER IT TO NORTH TEXAS AS PART OF OUR BILL FROM THE WATER DISTRICT FOR WASTE SERVICES ANNUALLY.

THE CWD CONTRACT FOR COMMERCIAL SERVICES HAS THE SAME CPI PROVISIONS; FIVE PERCENT LIMIT UNLESS YOU REQUEST MORE IS ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.

I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO LOOK AT TYPICAL COMMERCIAL CONTAINERS.

MOST OF THE RESOLUTION IS ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMMERCIAL CONTAINERS AND HOW OFTEN DO YOU PICK THEM UP, AND IT'S REALLY CONFUSING.

I PICKED THE FOUR MOST POPULOUS CONTAINERS IN THE CITY RIGHT NOW.

THE FIRST ONE IS A FOUR CUBIC YARD FRONT-LOAD CONTAINER ON THE TOP-LEFT.

IT'S ONE-HALF THE SIZE OF AN EIGHT CUBIC YARD FRONT-LOAD CONTAINER ON THE TOP-RIGHT.

THIS FRONT-LOAD MAY BE IN FRONT OF A SMALL BUSINESS ON THE LEFT AND A EIGHT-YARD IS TYPICAL AT RESTAURANTS AND IS THE MOST POPULOUS TYPE CONTAINER IN THE CITY.

OF EVERYTHING WE HAVE, OVER HALF OF THEM ARE EIGHT CUBIC YARD FRONT LOADS.

THE ABBREVIATIONS UNDER CWD COMMERCIAL CHARGE ARE A FOUR CUBIC YARD CONTAINER PICKED UP TWICE A WEEK NOW COST $200.

WITH A FIVE PERCENT INCREASE, IT'S $210, AND SO ON THROUGH SEVEN AND NINE PERCENT.

FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED MORE TRASH PICKUP BUT STILL HAVE A FOUR CUBIC YARD, A FIVE TIMES A WEEK PICK UP IS $442, AND YOU CAN SEE THE IMPACT OF THE DIFFERENT PERCENTAGES OF INCREASE.

AN EIGHT-YARD TWICE A WEEK STARTS AT $289 NOW, AND YOU CAN SEE THE IMPACT AS YOU GO ACROSS THE RATE INCREASE.

EIGHT CUBIC YARD FIVE TIMES A WEEK STARTS AT $633, AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT FIVE, SEVEN, AND NINE INCREASE DOES TO THAT.

I HAVE TWO MORE COMMERCIAL CONTAINERS TO SHOW YOU.

THE 35-YARD ROLL-OFF IS WHAT YOU SEE BEHIND MOST GROCERY STORES, MAYBE WALMART AND BIGGER BIG BOX STORES.

IT'S A ROLL-OFF COMPACTOR AND CWD TAKES THESE TO THE TRANSFER STATION.

THE ONE ON THE TOP-RIGHT IS A 30-YARD OPEN-TOP ROLL-OFF CONTAINER.

BUT BECAUSE OF THE MATERIALS THAT ARE IN IT, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO HAUL THIS TO THE LANDFILL IN MELISSA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RATE AND SAY, THAT'S 35, THIS IS 30, WHY DOES THE 30 COST MORE FOR HAUL? IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING ON A 40-MILE ROUND TRIP, AND SOMETIMES THEY SIT IN LINE AT THE LANDFILL FOR AN HOUR-AND-A-HALF WAITING TO GET TO THE FACE OF THE LANDFILL TO UNLOAD THEM.

THE 35-YARD ROLL-OFF GOES TO THE SAME PLACE AS RESIDENTIAL TRASH TO THE TRANSFER STATION AT CASTOR AND RIDGEVIEW.

THE 35-YARD COMPACTOR, THE TOP-LEFT ONE, CURRENTLY $481 PER HAUL, AND THEN YOU CAN SEE HOW THE RATES INCREASE THE COSTS OF POSSIBLE RATE INCREASES, AND A 30-YARD OPEN-TOP CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS PERHAPS THE MOST EXPENSIVE TYPE CONTAINER THAT WE HAVE IN OUR RATE SCHEDULE AND NOW STARTS AT $535.

THEN YOU CAN SEE HOW 5, 7, AND 9 TAKE THAT RATE UP.

CONSUMER PRICE INDEX IS A GOOD GAUGE FOR WHAT WE MIGHT OWE A SERVICE PROVIDER BECAUSE IT'S COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT.

US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS PUT THIS TOGETHER.

WE DEFINE THE USE OF THE CPI AND INCLUDED A FIVE PERCENT LIMIT FOR A REASON WHEN THIS CONTRACT WAS FIRST WRITTEN.

THAT WAS TO AVOID A BIG BLOW-UP AND A BIG HUGE INCREASE IN COST.

CWD HAZARD COSTED MORE.

THE FACT IS IS THAT THEY HAVE SHOWN US

[00:55:02]

NUMBERS TO SHOW THEIR COST INCREASES ARE OVER 10 PERCENT, AND THAT'S PROBABLY LEGITIMATE.

THEY WOULD BE TIED TO THE NINE PERCENT CPI AS THE TOP LEVEL THEY COULD GO AT.

WE'VE HAD LOTS OF DISCUSSIONS AMONGST STAFF MEMBERS AND THE CITY LEADERSHIP AND FELT THAT THE APPROPRIATE AND FAIR THING TO DO WOULD BE TO RECOMMEND A SEVEN PERCENT CPI ADJUSTMENT FOR THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, WHICH IS WHAT WE PAY CWD AND THE COMMERCIAL SIDE IS WHAT THE COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS PAY DIRECTLY TO CWD.

WITH THAT, WE WOULD ENTER INTO DISCUSSIONS OR QUESTIONS OR OPINIONS OR ANYTHING THAT MAY HAVE BEARING ON WHAT WE ACTUALLY DO THIS EVENING.

>> BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR INTO THIS WITH REGARD TO THE PROPOSED RATE INCREASE COME BUDGET.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE LIKELY TO HAVE TO DISCUSS A RATE INCREASE FOR RESIDENTIAL NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.

>> YES. THAT'S CORRECT, SIR.

THAT'LL BE A BUDGET WORKSHOP ITEM AND YOU'LL HAVE OPTIONS ON WHAT WE DO AND HOW MUCH WE DO AND WHERE THE MONEY GOES THAT WE GET FROM THE INCREASES.

>> I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IF WE GRANT THIS SEVEN PERCENT AND THEN WE HAVE BUDGET DISCUSSIONS FOR ANOTHER INCREASE, IS IT GOING TO BE BASED OFF THE RATE PLUS THE SEVEN PERCENT OR THE RATE WE'RE CURRENTLY UNDER NOW?

>> FOR BUDGET DISCUSSIONS, I HAVE PUT A PLACEHOLDER IN AT NINE PERCENT BECAUSE THAT WAS A WORST-CASE SCENARIO.

>> CORRECT.

>> IF YOU APPROVED SEVEN TONIGHT, THE CFO IS GOING TO TELL ME REDO YOUR BUDGET.

THEN WHAT YOU SEE IN AUGUST WILL BE FOR A SEVEN PERCENT RATING.

>> IT'D BE BASED.

>> YES, SIR. I'LL BE DIRECTED TO ADJUST IT TO WHAT YOU ACTUALLY APPROVE, WHETHER IT'S 6, 7, 8, 9, OR WHATEVER YOU MAY DESIRE, CERTAINLY, YOU CAN DO.

>> LIKE YOU SAID EARLIER AND JUST TO BE FAIR, THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES THEY'VE COME IN HERE AND WE'VE LOWERED RATE NOT ACTUALLY INCREASED IT JUST WITH THE SITUATION IN THE COUNTY IS109 DOLLARS BILL, MY GAS TANK RIGHT NOW.

>> ONE YEAR IT WAS MINUS 0.6, NOTHING HAS BEEN FORTUNATE THIS YEAR WITH INFLATION.

>> CORRECT.

>> PERHAPS ASUNDER OVER HERE IS APPROPRIATE GIVEN THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT CPI.

I THINK THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT JUST WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH SOLID WASTE THIS YEAR AND WE DECIDED TO GO WITH THE BULK PICKUP ONCE A MONTH AND THAT INCREASED TO OUR COST ABOUT $240,000 AND I GUESS IT WAS A SEVEN PERCENT INCREASE.

WE'RE GOING UP ANOTHER 30,000.

LAST YEAR OUR FUND BALANCE AND I KNOW YOU'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE RESERVE IN SUCH, OUR FUND BALANCE DECLINED OVER $800,000 I THINK WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BACK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BULK PICKUP, IS YOU CAN TELL THAT WE'RE THE LOWEST RATE.

WE CHARGE THE LOWEST RATES TO OUR CUSTOMERS.

WE HAVEN'T RAISED RATES SINCE 2010.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT THERE'S PROBABLY NOTHING YOU COULD BUY IN THE WORLD THAT YOU WOULD PAY THE SAME PRICE AS YOU PAID IN 2010.

IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT DISCUSSION IN BUDGET WORKSHOP BECAUSE INFLATION IS PREDICTED TO BE EVEN HIGHER IN 2023 AND IN 2022.

I GUESS THINKING ABOUT THAT AND WE'LL HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION, WHEN I LOOK AT THE SEVEN PERCENT AND WHAT'S APPROPRIATE AND I'M NOT GOING TO DISCLOSE WHAT I THINK BUT AS FAR AS APPROPRIATE BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT WE'VE HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH CWD, WE GO WAY BACK.

I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT JUST CWD, ITS BUSINESSES EVERYWHERE THAT ARE STRUGGLING TO FIND THE LABOR, WORK, AND PAY PEOPLE, WHETHER IT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE PEOPLE OR YOUR DRIVERS.

IN SO MANY THINGS WE DO AS A CONSOLE AND AS A CITY, IT'S ABOUT SHARING AND BEING GOOD PARTNERS.

I WILL DEFER TO YOU AND AS TO IS THIS APPROPRIATE? I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE GOT SEVEN PERCENT.

MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE IT'S SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN AND THAT'S FINE.

IS IT A RATE WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT OUR RESIDENTS ARE USED TO AND EVERYBODY AND BOTH PARTIES ARE GOING TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT? THAT'S IMPORTANT. WE'VE BEEN THERE AND NOT TO ANY CRITICISM IF YOU-ALL EVERYBODY'S GONE THROUGH SOME EBBS AND FLOWS IN THEIR BUSINESS BUT WE'VE HAD THESE CUSTOMER SERVICE ISSUES.

WE'VE HAD PEOPLE, WE ALL GET THE EMAILS RIGHT GUYS, OUR PEOPLE MAD BECAUSE THEIR TRASH DIDN'T GET PICKED UP.

I JUST EXPLAINED TO YOU, I DON'T KNOW WHERE SEVEN PERCENT CAME FROM,

[01:00:01]

BUT I'M HOPING THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE AGREED AS GOOD PARTNERS WITH CWD IN THE CITY.

THAT'S ALL RELATES WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME.

>> BEN.

>> YES. A FEW SLIDES BACK YOU HAVE A PHRASE THAT TALKS ABOUT UNFORESEEABLE CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH KICK UP THE FIVE PERCENT FOR CPI.

I HAPPEN TO THINK THAT TWO DATA POINTS EQUAL TO TREND.

AT WHAT POINT DID THEY DECIPHER THE TREND WAS HAPPENING TOWARDS INCREASED COSTS.

PERHAPS THIS IS A QUESTION FOR REPRESENTATIVE OF CWD TO SAY, WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THEY'VE DONE TO CREATE EFFICIENCIES, CONTAIN COSTS, TRY TO DECREASE THEIR COSTS SO THAT IT DIDN'T KICK UP PACIFY PERCENT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE A THOUGHT ON THAT.

>> I'M SURE MR. REAGAN WOULD BE HAPPY TO COME UP WITH YOU.

I KNOW THAT THE INITIATION OF THAT WAS WITH THE VIRUS IN 2020 AND THEY WERE LOSING DRIVERS LIKE CRAZY AND HAD TO UP WAGES.

OVER THE TIME AS THEY LOST PEOPLE, THEY UP WAGES PAY AND BENEFITS WENT UP.

WE ALSO IN LAST FALL AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO WERE HERE, REMEMBER, WE BROUGHT TO BEAR SOME COMPLAINTS ON CWD FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE.

THEY DOUBLED THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE STAFF.

WE HAVE A DESIGNATED PERSON WHO I'VE GOT TO SAY, I HOPE HE NEVER LEAVES CWD AND I HOPE HE NEVER STOP SERVING THE CITY OF ALLEN.

I'VE TOLD A FEW OF YOU THE STORY THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR ME THAT I HEAR FROM DONNA GILES OUR WASTE SERVICES MANAGER.

THREE TIMES A DAY THEY GET INFORMATION FROM CWD ON PROBLEM RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL PICKUPS.

THE ONE THAT'S MOST MEMORABLE TO ME WAS WHEN A DRIVER WENT OUT TO A SCHOOL TO PICK UP AN EIGHT-YARD FRONT-LOAD THAT HAD CLOSED GATES IN FRONT OF IT LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.

WHEN HE GOT THERE, THE WELD ON ONE OF THE GATES HAD FALLEN OFF AND THE GATE WAS STUCK TO THE GROUND AND COULDN'T BE MOVED.

THAT WAS ABOUT 9:00 AM.

ABOUT 9:30, DONNA GILES GOT AN EMAIL FROM CUSTOMER SERVICE THERE'S A PROBLEM AT A CERTAIN SCHOOL.

DONNA CALLED OPERATIONS AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

BY 10:30, THEY CALLED AND SAID THEY'D TAKEN THE GATE OFF, AND BY 11:30 THEY MADE THE PICKUP.

THE SAME THING HAPPENS FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS NOW.

IT IS WONDERFUL TO WORK WITH THEM AND I'M NOT SAYING IT BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT FOR 21 YEARS.

I'M THE GUY WROTE THOSE NASTY LETTERS TO MR. REIMER A YEAR-AND-A-HALF AGO BUT THEIR RESPONSE TO THOSE LETTERS HAS BEEN EXCELLENT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

I COULD PROBABLY HAVE DONE A GILES COME UP HERE AND TELL YOU MANY MORE EXAMPLES OF THE SUCCESSES WE'RE HAVING WITH THEM NOW.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN GET THAT FROM BIG TRASH COMPANY XYZ THAT DOES MCKINNEY AND FRISCO.

YOU CALL THEM IT'S LIKE CALLING THE POST OFFICE.

YOU CALL THE POSTMASTER IN ALLEN, YOU TALK TO SOMEBODY IN WASHINGTON NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING.

THAT'S THE WAY THE BIG WASTE SERVICES COMPANIES ARE.

IF I CALL GREG KRAMER, HE'LL CALL ME IF HE'S ON VACATION IN CHINA.

HE'LL ANSWER ME RIGHT AWAY.

WE HAVE THE ASSISTANCE AND THE HELP OF THE BOSS OF THE COMPANY AT OUR BECK AND CALL.

IT'S A VERY UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP.

I ASSURE YOU IT'S ABSOLUTELY PROFESSIONAL AND THEY WERE VERY HARD TO SUSTAIN IT BUT MAYBE I ANSWERED MR. REAGAN'S QUESTION.

>> MAYOR, CITY COUNCIL, CITIZENS OF ALLEN, MY NAME IS GREG KRAMER.

I'M THE PRESIDENT OF COMMUNITY WASTE DISPOSAL.

IT'S BEEN A VERY UNUSUAL TWO AND A HALF YEARS.

SOME BUSINESSES HAVE DONE VERY WELL IN THE PANDEMIC.

I WAS JUST WITH A CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO OF THE LEGAL CORPORATION.

THEIR REVENUES HAVE GONE UP 50 PERCENT PER YEAR SINCE THE PANDEMIC STARTED.

A WONDERFUL STORY OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THEIR COMPANY DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THE TRASH GUYS ON THE OTHER HAND, STARTING MARCH OF 20 WHEN ALL OF OUR KIDS CAME HOME FROM SCHOOL AND ALL OF OUR BUSINESSES CLOSED, AND WE QUIT GOING OUT TO EAT, AND WE QUIT SHOPPING, AND ALL WE DID WAS HONEY DO'S AND PUT TRASH ON THE CURB.

OUR VOLUMES WENT UP 15 PERCENT, AND OUR LIVES REVOLVE IN TRASH BUSINESS AROUND ONE TON OF TRASH.

ONE TON TRASH MEANS MORE DRIVERS, MORE TRUCKS, MORE LABOR, MORE FUEL, MORE INSURANCE, MORE EVERYTHING.

JUST WHEN WE THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING THROUGH THAT, WE HAD THAT FEBRUARY FREEZE, WHICH WAS CONSIDERED A NATIONAL DISASTER, THAT THREW ANOTHER 34 PERCENT OUT ON THE CURB.

THEN WE RUN INTO THE LABOR SHORTAGE.

WE DID A DRIVER HELPER WAGE INCREASE OF

[01:05:03]

20 PERCENT JUST TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO STOP LEAVING THE COMPANY AND TRY TO GET SOME TO COME ON BOARD.

WE DOUBLED OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE DEPARTMENT FROM 8-16 PEOPLE AND GAVE THEM A 25 PERCENT RAISE SO WE COULD ANSWER THE PHONES BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE LEAVING AND GOING.

JUST WHEN WE THINK IT CAN'T GET ANY WORSE, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS. NOW, WHAT DO WE HAVE? WE'VE GOT THIS OUTRAGEOUS INFLATION THING, STUFF THAT WE JUST WEREN'T PREDICTING A YEAR AGO WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, MUCH LIKE THE OTHER THINGS I'VE MENTIONED.

WE CAME UP AND MET WITH STAFF.

I THINK ABOUT THREE OR FOUR WEEKS AGO, THE DATE DOESN'T COME TO ME, BUT WE CAME WITH TWO CASES OF CONFIDENTIAL FILES, AND WE WERE WILLING TO SHOW THEM ANYTHING ABOUT OUR COMPANY THEY WANTED TO SEE.

BUT OUR MISSION WAS TO SHOW THEM BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT OUR COSTS IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS HAVE GONE UP 12.3 PERCENT.

NOT 10, NOT NINE, NOT FIVE, 12.3 PERCENT.

I THINK WE LEFT THE MEETING MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, THAT THEY BELIEVED IT IS LEGITIMATE AND TRUE THESE GUY'S COSTS HAVE GONE UP 12.3 PERCENT.

I CAN'T THINK OF A SINGLE COST THAT HAS GONE DOWN.

I CAN'T THINK OF A SINGLE HAVING OUR OVERTIME IS UP, OUR EQUIPMENT COST OUTRAGEOUS OF THE COST OF STEEL IS OUTRAGEOUSLY GONE UP.

OUR TAXES HAVE GONE UP A LITTLE BIT, I SUPPOSE.

BUT IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFICULT.

WE THOUGHT ASKING FOR THE NINE PERCENT CPI WAS A COMPROMISE BECAUSE THE CONTRACT IS BASED ON THE CPI.

THE CPI IS LEGITIMATELY A NINE PERCENT.

WE COULD HAVE ASKED FOR 12.3, BUT WE THOUGHT THAT WAS A REASONABLE COMPROMISE.

WE'RE HERE ASKING FOR THAT TONIGHT.

I DON'T THINK IT IS UNREASONABLE.

WE HAVE A GREAT PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY.

SOMEONE ASKED ME EARLIER, GREG, IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT SERVICE? I WANT TO TELL YOU NO, IT NEVER WILL BECAUSE WE WANT TO GIVE YOU THE BEST SERVICE THAT CAN BE PROVIDED TO THE CITY AND WE'LL FIGHT TO THE VERY LAST MINUTE TO DO THAT.

BUT IN THE REAL-WORLD, IF YOU'RE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF CWD AND THE OWNERS OF CWD, AND OUR COSTS GO UP [NOISE] IN A VACUUM 12.3 PERCENT YEAR AFTER YEAR, AND OUR REVENUES ARE GOING UP FIVE PERCENT OR SEVEN PERCENT OR MAYBE NINE.

I MEAN, EVENTUALLY COSTS ARE GOING TO EQUAL REVENUE, EXCEED REVENUE AND THEN WHEN YOU LOSE MONEY, WHAT HAPPENS? WHEN YOU START LOSING MONEY, YOU DO ONE OF TWO THINGS; YOU EITHER GO OUT OF BUSINESS, OR YOU CUT COSTS.

GENERALLY WHAT A FIGHTER DOES IS CUT COSTS.

WE DON'T WANT TO BE IN THAT POSITION.

WE CERTAINLY TRY NOT TO BE IN THAT POSITION, BUT WE ARE A COMPANY THAT HAS TO MAKE A PROFIT.

SERVICE IS NOT GOING TO BE AFFECTED IN ALLEN NEXT WEEK, NEXT MONTH, BUT IN A VACUUM, I SUPPOSE IF THIS HAPPENS YEAR AFTER YEAR, AND IT REALLY SCARES ME WHEN COUNCILMAN SAYS THAT IT'S EXPECTED TO BE EVEN HIGHER NEXT YEAR BECAUSE THIS IS SHOCKING TO ALL OF OUR CITY CONTRACTS.

I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH FOUR PERCENT OR LESS FOR 20 YEARS.

NOW WE'RE RUNNING AROUND TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT 10 AND 12 PERCENT.

[LAUGHTER] IT'S NOT MAKING MY JOB EASIER.

I'D RATHER BE THREE, AND YOU'RE HAPPY AND SLAM THE GAVEL, AND WE ALL GO HOME.

BUT THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY IT IS.

THAT'S NOT THE CARDS THAT ARE BEING DEALT AT. I WON'T KEEP GOING.

I'LL ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE.

I'M GLAD TO BE HERE, AND WE APPRECIATE THE RELATIONSHIP.

>> NOW TO THE SPIRIT OF BEN'S QUESTION ON EFFICIENCIES, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO CAPITALIZE OR LEVERAGE ANY TYPE OF EFFICIENCIES OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS? OR IS IT JUST A COSPLAY ALONE?

>> I REALLY CAN'T THINK OF A ONE.

OUR TOWNS HAVE GROWN.

WE'VE LITERALLY TURNED DOWN CITY CONTRACTS OVER THE PAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS BECAUSE OF LABOR SHORTAGE AND PROBLEMS LIKE THAT.

WE'VE NOT BEEN TRYING TO GROW THE COMPANY OTHER THAN INTERNAL GROWTH, WHICH JUST HAPPENS WITH TOWNS.

BUT I REALLY, OTHER THAN THERE'S SOME EFFICIENCY IN A TOWN GROWING WITH HOMES NEXT EXISTING HOMES, I CAN'T THINK OF A LOT, NO.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR GREG?

>> THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

>> THANK YOU, GREG.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STEVE? IF NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, THEN I'LL TURN THE MATTER OVER TO THE COUNCIL.

ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS THAT ANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE?

[01:10:02]

>> YEAH. I'LL SAY IT'D BE TRANSPARENT ON WHERE MY MIND IS ON THIS.

WHEN THIS WAS FIRST BROUGHT TO US, I IMMEDIATELY WENT BACK TO GO MY BUSINESS ROUTES AND A CONTRACT IS A CONTRACT AND INITIALLY I WAS AT, NOW YOU WANT TO GO FIVE PERCENT, THAT'S WHAT'S IN THE CONTRACT GO FIVE PERCENT.

I HAVE A GREAT UNDERSTANDING OF THE PARTNERSHIP ON HOW MEANINGFUL A SOLID PARTNERSHIP IS BETWEEN, IN MY WORLD BUSINESS OF BUSINESS.

THAT PARTNERSHIP COMES FROM YOU, STEVE.

THAT IS ACKNOWLEDGED AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE DO HAVE SOME OF THE LOWEST RATES TO OUR CUSTOMERS RIGHT NOW.

THAT PLAYS A POSITIVE FACTOR.

TO GET TO THE SEVEN PERCENT, IT TAKES ME TO MY LIMIT.

I THINK WE'RE BEING EXTREMELY GENEROUS IN MY MIND ABOUT AS GENEROUS AS I'M WILLING TO BE.

BUT I THINK IT'S FAIR ON BOTH SIDES. THAT'S MY THOUGHTS.

>> THANK YOU DAREN. I HAVE DAVE NEXT.

>> I'LL GO. WHAT DAREN IS SAYING, I MEAN, A CONTRACT IS A CONTRACT, BUT THESE ARE UNPRECEDENTED TIMES NO DOUBT.

WE DO HAVE A GOOD PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM AND LIKE TO MAINTAIN THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE CAN'T.

THE CITIZENS ARE DEPENDENT ON US NOT TO INFLATE THEIR COSTS AS WELL, WHICH JUST WOULD LEAD TO.

I THINK SEVEN IS A GOOD COMPROMISE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S AN OVERBEARING AND I THINK IT'S REALLY DECENT.

>> CARL.

>> YEAH, ECHO A LOT OF THE SAME COMMENTS.

I WORK IN A BUSINESS WORLD, COSTS ARE EVERYTHING, I UNDERSTAND.

WE TRY TO MINIMIZE THE COST TO OUR CITIZEN BASE, BUT THE COST IS GOING UP ALL AROUND US.

TO HONOR THAT PARTNERSHIP, WE'VE GOT TO SHARE IN SOME OF THAT COST INCREASE.

WHILE NOBODY LIKES TO SEE COSTS GO UP, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE LEVEL OF OUR SERVICES GO DOWN.

WE APPRECIATE THE PARTNERSHIP AND I CAN SUPPORT THE SEVEN PERCENT.

>> THANK YOU CARL. ANYONE FROM THIS SIDE? DAVE?

>> I'M PREPARED TO SUPPORT THE SEVEN PERCENT.

THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT COSTS ALL THE WAY DOWN THE LINE HAVE GONE UP.

MY NEW CLIENTS ARE ABOUT TO FIND OUT THAT I'M GOING UP 13 PERCENT IN MY RATE.

IT'S NOT AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST.

>> ANYONE ELSE FROM THIS SIDE?

>> IT'S A PRETTY TOUGH SITUATION.

WE DO HAVE A CAP IN THE CONTRACT FOR A REASON TO PROTECT US SO THAT WE DON'T END UP HAVING EXCESSIVE COST INCREASE FROM ONE YEAR TO THE NEXT.

BUT AT LEAST HAVING THAT CAP GIVES US THE OPTION TO CONSIDER DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT CWD, MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE WE'RE THEIR FIRST BIG CUSTOMER IN THE METROPLEX.

WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY AND IT HAS BEEN AN EXCELLENT PARTNERSHIP.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S JUSTIFICATION ON THE TABLE FOR OVER 12 PERCENT.

BUT I THINK EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO DEAL WITH COST INCREASES OF OVER 12 PERCENT AT THEIR OWN PLACE OF WORK, OR AT HOME AND DEALING WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE HAVE TO LOOK OUT FOR OUR TAXPAYERS AND TRY TO COMPROMISE THE BEST WE CAN.

BUT IT'S REALLY TOUGH TO TRY TO ABSORB ALL OF THE COST INCREASE THAT CWD HAS.

OBVIOUSLY, THEY'VE COME BACK WITH WHAT THEY FEEL IS A REASONABLE REQUEST.

I'M STRUGGLING A LOT WITH THIS BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE BOTH SIDES OF IT, BUT I'M OKAY WITH THE COMPROMISE BEING SEVEN PERCENT AS PROPOSED.

IF THERE'S NO OTHER FURTHER COMMENTS, THEN I WOULD ASK FOR A MOTION AND A SECOND ON THIS ITEM.

I DO HAVE A RESOLUTION NUMBER.

WELL, I'LL LET SHELLY GIVE YOU THE RESOLUTION NUMBER.

>> RESOLUTION NUMBER 3915-5-22R.

>> MAYOR, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER 3915-5-22R.

[01:15:01]

>> SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE VOTING ON? IF SO, PLEASE CAST YOUR BALLOT.

>> OR WE COULD.

>> NO.

>> TELL YOU WHAT.

>> [INAUDIBLE] RIGHT.

>> THERE WE GO.

>> GOOD.

>> OH, I PUT THE WRONG BUTTON. I DID.

>> YOU DID MR. [OVERLAPPING]

>> I DID.

>> WOULD YOU LIKE TO [OVERLAPPING]

>> WE WILL NOTE THAT HE MADE A MISTAKE.

WE WILL NOTE THAT IT'S CORRECTED IT'S A UNANIMOUS VOTE TO APPROVE THIS ITEM WHICH DOES CONSIST OF A 7 PERCENT CPI INCREASE.

I WISH WE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER, GREG, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WE COULD DO TONIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION SIR.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR [OVERLAPPING]

>> THANK YOU.

[6.2 Conduct a public hearing and adopt an Ordinance for a Specific Use Permit for Single-Family Attached use for property generally located at the northeast corner of Boyd Drive and Butler Drive.]

>> MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, 6.2, WE'RE GOING TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND ADOPT AN ORDINANCE FOR SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR A SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED USE FOR PROPERTY GENERALLY LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF BOYD DRIVE AND BUTLER DRIVE.

WE HAVE PLANNING MANAGER, HAYLEY ANGEL, WHO'S GOING TO MAKE THIS PRESENTATION.

GOOD EVENING, HAYLEY.

>> THANK YOU MAYOR. JUST ONCE.

THANK YOU MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL.

THE AGENDA ITEM THAT WAS JUST READ INTO THE RECORD IS A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR A TOWN HOME USE AT 100 WEST BOYD.

THE PROPERTY IS ROUGHLY IDENTIFIED BY THE YELLOW STAR AND AS YOU CAN SEE IT IS NORTH OF MCDERMOTT DRIVE AND EAST OF US HIGHWAY 75.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS OUTLINED HERE IN RED.

IT IS LOCATED IN A CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

IF YOU LOOK IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER OF THE IMAGE YOU CAN SEE THE ALLEN PUBLIC LIBRARY OFF OF ALLEN DRIVE.

OVER TO THE EAST OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, THERE'S THE DART RIGHT OF WAY.

OUR CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT DOESN'T NORMALLY COME BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL.

MOST OF THE TIME PROPERTIES IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT DO DEVELOP BY RAIL AND THEY ARE SUBJECTED TO AN APPOINTED BOARD, THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE.

ANY SITE PLAN OR BUILDING PERMIT THAT OCCURS IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT DOES GO BEFORE THIS BOARD FOR REVIEW, NOT JUST OF ARCHITECTURAL MATTERS BUT ALSO WHAT HAPPENS BEHIND THE BACK OF THE CURB AND TO THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING.

SIDEWALK, PEDESTRIAN ATMOSPHERE.

THAT IS TO SAY THIS PROPERTY HAS GONE THROUGH SEVERAL APPROVALS BEFORE IT'S LANDED ON YOUR DESK TONIGHT.

THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST TONIGHT IS FOR 16 TOWN HOME UNITS TO BE DEVELOPED ON THIS ENTIRE BLOCK AT THE CORNER OF BOYD AND BUTLER DRIVE.

A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY. BACK IN DECEMBER OF 2021, IT DID GO BEFORE THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AND RECEIVED AN APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS.

THERE WERE SOME MINOR CHANGES TO THE SITE THAT NEEDED TO HAPPEN BUT PRIMARILY THE CONDITIONS WERE PERTAINING TO THE ELEVATIONS.

I'LL DIG INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT IN THE PRESENTATION.

BUT BACK IN APRIL OF 2022, JUST LAST MONTH, THEY DID RECEIVE AN APPROVAL FROM THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, IT IS STILL AN SUP SO IT GOES THROUGH A STAFF REVIEW PROCESS AND WAS SUBJECT TO PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION'S REVIEW.

THERE WAS SOME PRETTY EXTENSIVE ENGINEERING DONE ON THIS SITE AS WELL.

AS YOU CAN SEE TO THE NORTH WHERE COATS DRIVE IS, THERE IS SOME EXISTING DRAINAGE WORK THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER FOR THE APPLICANT TO DEVELOP THE SITE.

WITH ALL OF THAT BACKGROUND OF WHAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED WE CAN JUMP INTO THE SITE AT HAND.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> SURE.

>> THE BLUE LINE, IS THAT THE START OF THE DART RIGHT OF WAY?

>> YES, IT IS.

THESE ARE THE APPRAISAL DISTRICT LINES TO THE PROPERTY LENGTH.

>> FANTASTIC. THANK YOU.

>> [NOISE] BEING IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT AND THERE IS THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE CONDUCTING THEIR OVERALL VISIONING PLAN.

WHILE THAT IS GOING ON, TONIGHT'S REQUEST IS SUBJECT TO THE EXISTING POLICIES AND ADOPTED ZONING DISTRICT.

WHEN STAFF RECEIVED THE APPLICATION FOR THE SPECIFIC USE PERMIT WE STARTED WITH OUR FIRST ADOPTED POLICY, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

BACK IN 2014, THIS WAS ADOPTED AND THE CBD WAS IDENTIFIED AS A GROWTH AREA.

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS IN THE CORE DOWNTOWN AREA.

WHILE WE DO HAVE THIS AND SOME GUIDING PRINCIPLES FOR THE OVERALL CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, IT DIDN'T OUTLINE SPECIFIC USES AND SPECIFIC AREAS.

JUST GENERALLY [NOISE] THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DID NOTE THAT THE COMMERCIAL AREA SHOULD SUPPORT RESIDENTIAL USES.

THE SUP SITE PLAN IS HERE BEFORE YOU.

AGAIN, THESE ARE INDIVIDUALLY PLOTTED TOWN HOME LOTS AND THERE ARE 16 [NOISE] OF THEM.

WHAT I'LL DO IS I'LL GO THROUGH AND I'LL HELP ORIENT JUST A LITTLE BIT.

THE FIRST SET OF UNITS ARE GOING TO BE FACING BUTLER DRIVE.

BUTLER DRIVE WILL BE REPLACED WITH CONCRETE, SO THAT WILL BE UPGRADED.

YOU CAN SEE THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL PARALLEL PARKING FOR GUEST SPACES, BUMP OUTS FOR STREET TREES, AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL SIDEWALKS AND FOR THOSE FRONT DOORS TO OPEN OUT ONTO.

[01:20:01]

THE FRONT YARD SETBACK HERE IS APPROXIMATELY 10 FEET.

THE GARAGES HERE YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A CENTRAL ALLEY THAT RUNS THROUGH THE BLOCK AND SO ALL OF THE GARAGES ARE GOING TO BE LOADED FROM THE HOMES.

ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE, THE EAST SIDE, THESE TOWN HOMES WILL FACE THE DART RIGHT-OF-WAY.

THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT DOES HAVE A MAXIMUM SETBACK OF 10 FEET WHICH IS ATYPICAL.

NORMALLY WE HAVE A MINIMUM.

IN THIS CASE THE [NOISE] CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO PUSH YOUR BUILDINGS TO THE STREET.

THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE APPROVED AN INCREASE IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACK ALONG THIS ROW OF TOWN HOMES.

KNOWING IT'S FACING THE DART RIGHT OF WAY, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME GRADING IN THIS AREA THAT REQUIRES OR RETAINING WALL BE APPROVED AND INCREASED TO 20 FEET FOR THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.

IN THE UPPER CORNER HERE, THERE DOES NEED TO BE A DETENTION AREA IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE SITE.

THE DESIGNER VIEW COMMITTEE DID HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD BE SCREENED FROM BUTLER DRIVE AND IF WE THINK ABOUT PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC, THAT MAKES SENSE.

THIS IS PRIMARILY ADDRESSED THROUGH THE LANDSCAPING PLAN BUT I DID WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THERE IS A SIX-FOOT ORNAMENTAL METAL FENCE THAT WILL BE INCORPORATED INTO THE LANDSCAPING.

THIS IS THE LANDSCAPING PLAN AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY'VE INCLUDED SOME EVERGREEN SHRUBS ALONG BOTH THE ALLEY AND THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE DETENTION POND.

IF YOU WERE WALKING ALONG BUTLER, THAT WOULD BE ADEQUATELY SCREENED.

THIS IS IN COMBINATION WITH SOME VINES THAT WOULD GROW UP ALONG THAT METAL FENCING.

IN ADDITION, ON THIS LANDSCAPE PLAN YOU CAN SEE A LOT OF TREES AND OTHER PLANTINGS THAT THEY ARE PROPOSING AND SOME OF THE OPEN SPACE AREAS.

THE OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT IS A LITTLE BIT ATYPICAL AS WELL.

GENERALLY SPEAKING WHEN WE LOOK FOR OUR MINIMUM OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENT WE START WITH OUR GENERAL HEIGHTENED AREA REGULATIONS AND WE GO TO THE BASE ZONING DISTRICT.

EXCUSE ME. [NOISE] FOR EXAMPLE, IF A PROPERTY WAS ZONED R7, WE WOULD GO TO THAT TABLE.

IT WOULD LIST THE MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE PER UNIT. WE WOULD GO FROM THERE.

MORE TYPICALLY, YOU'LL SEE A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT WHICH REQUIRES ONE ACRE PER 75 DWELLING UNITS.

SPECIFICALLY WITH THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, THERE IS NOT A MINIMUM [NOISE] LISTED WITHIN THAT BASE ZONING DISTRICT.

BECAUSE THE APPLICANT TONIGHT IS ONLY COMING FOR A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT, NEITHER OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS WERE TRIGGERED IN THIS CASE.

>> HAYLEY, CAN I QUESTION ABOUT THIS ONE?

>> SURE.

>> THE PROPERTY ON THE WEST SIDE HAS BOTH REAR AND FRONT ENTRANCE BY RIGHT AWAY OF A STREET BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE EAST SIDE PROPERTY JUST HAS A REAR ACCESS.

IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT? THERE'S NO ROAD IN THE FRONT.

>> CORRECT. THIS WOULD BE AMUSED CONDITION.

THE ALLEY THAT RUNS THROUGH THE CENTER OF THIS PROPERTY IS WIDE ENOUGH TO BE A FIRE LANE SO THEY STILL HAVE ADEQUATE ACCESS TO SERVICE THOSE HOMES.

>> THERE'LL BE A WALKWAY IN THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, IS IT?

>> YES. IN BOTH THE SITE PLAN AND THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE ARE SIDEWALKS CONNECTING FROM BOTH BUTLER AND BOYD ON THE NORTH AND EASTERN ENDS OF THE PROPERTIES SO THERE IS ADEQUATE ACCESS.

>> FANTASTIC. THANK YOU.

>> OPEN SPACE, THE APPLICANT IS STILL PROVIDING ADDITIONAL OPEN SPACE AND THAT IS REFLECTED AND SHOWN AS A MONETIZED ON THE LANDSCAPE PLAN.

FINALLY, THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS.

THERE'S MORE TO LOOK AT HERE THAN USUAL, NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THE ARCHITECTURAL REQUIREMENTS, BUT BECAUSE THIS IS ONE OF THE ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY REGULATE BUILDING MATERIALS.

BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A ZONING DISTRICT THAT'S DESIGNATED HISTORICALLY AND ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT, THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE DO STILL APPLY.

THE APPLICANT IS ACTUALLY EXCEEDING THESE REQUIREMENTS AND IS PROVIDING A 100 PERCENT MASONRY ON ALL ELEVATIONS.

WHEN THIS APPLICATION INITIALLY WENT TO THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS THAT THEY LOOK FOR.

THERE ARE THE GENERAL PROVISIONS WITHIN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

WE THINK OF PROVISIONS LIKE HARMONIZE WITH SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, AND THEN THERE ARE SPECIFIC SO 100 PERCENT MASONRY ON THE FIRST FLOOR.

WHILE DRC CERTAINLY HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SOME OF THOSE GENERAL REQUIREMENTS, WHEN THEY DID MAKE THEIR RECOMMENDATION WITH CONDITIONS, THE CONDITIONS WERE BASED ON SPECIFIC PARAMETERS.

>> HAYLEY, [OVERLAPPING] DID THE APPLICANT EVER CONSIDER PROVIDING A BIT MORE OF A HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURAL [NOISE] EXTERIOR VERSUS THIS MORE MODERN, IF YOU WILL?

[01:25:08]

[NOISE] [OVERLAPPING] WHATSOEVER ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT?

>> WE HAD A FEW CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SPECIFIC ELEMENTS.

DRC BRIEFLY TALKED ABOUT ARCHITECTURAL STYLE AND THE APPLICANT HAS ALWAYS COME IN WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A MODERN LOOK.

I THINK PART OF THAT MIGHT BE THE ROOF LINE.

THE ROOF LINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY FLAT.

>> WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS AND AS YOU'VE POINTED OUT EARLIER, WE HAVE THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE, AND TO SOME THAT PARTICIPATED IN THE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, THERE WAS A GOOD NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL CHARACTERISTICS OF THE CITY.

I THINK WE'VE ALL DRIVEN DOWN THERE ON BOYD AND ONE GUY, I THINK APPROPRIATELY THEY CALL IT A HODGEPODGE OF DIFFERENT BUILDINGS BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THE LIBRARY KITTY CORNER, WHICH HAS NO HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

YOU GOT THIS OLD DECREPIT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALL THAT ACROSS BOYD, BUILDING THAT HOUSES A BUNCH OF VARIETY OF THINGS.

[NOISE] I GUESS IF I LOOK AT THE ALLEN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ON THE CBD AND UNDER DUTIES, THERE'S THIS POINT THAT SAYS, "A DESIGNER CAN INITIALLY IMPROVE THE DESIGN PLAN IF THEY DETERMINE THAT THE CONSTRUCTION ALTERATION OR DISSIMENT IS A SUCH APPEARANCE AND DESIGN THAT THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE WHEN CONSTRUCTED OR REMODELED OR THE ALTERATIONS SATISFIES THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT STANDARDS." THEN YOU GO ON TO NUMBER 3 AND IT SAYS, "THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE SHALL REVIEW REQUESTS FOR DESIGNATION AS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR SUCH DESIGNATION." I GET IT, THOSE ALMOST CONTRADICT EACH OTHER IN MY MIND BECAUSE AN HB 2439, IF IT HAS A HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, WE AS A CITY CAN CONTROL WHAT THE MATERIAL IS BEING USED AND HOW IT LOOKS.

IF IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, HB 2439 OVERRULES.

ADMITTEDLY, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN ONE ON THE FRONT LINES ABOUT PRESERVING THAT HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA? BECAUSE THE CBD IS, SOMETIMES WE HAVE A HARD TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE CBD.

I THINK IT'S TOO BROAD, AND WE HAVE TO NARROW IT IN.

IS IT JUST THE MAIN STREET AND JUST A BLOCK OFF OR DOWN TO THE POST OFFICE? IS IT BEYOND THAT? IS IT DOWN TO THE HERITAGE VILLAGE AT SAINT MARY'S? I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT, BUT WHAT DOES BOTHER ME IS THAT WHEN I READ THIS ALLEN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IN THE CBD, [NOISE] IT CONCERNS ME THAT HOW ARE WE EVER GOING TO DO IT RIGHT DOWNTOWN? IF THIS SECTION OF THE ALLEN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE IS SO AMBIGUOUS AND IT'S A HODGEPODGE.

IT CREATES AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU COULD HAVE A HODGEPODGE OF DIFFERENT BUILDINGS AND NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY SYMMETRY.

NONE OF THEM LOOK ALIKE AND ONE LOOKS LIKE THIS AND ONE LOOKS LIKE THAT. I GET IT.

THIS IS A LITTLE BIT REMOVED AND THERE'S A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT BUILDINGS.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MOST THAT WE RESTORE THE HERITAGE, THE HISTORICAL RELEVANCE DOWNTOWN.

I HOPE WE TAP THE BRAKES HAVE BEEN ON DEVELOPMENT.

I KNOW WE CAN'T SQUEEZE THE DEVELOPERS, BUT TO ASK ABOUT THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, AND ASK ABOUT CONSTRUCTING EXHIBIT D, THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS IN A MANNER THAT'S FITTING FOR THE DOWNTOWN AREA, NOT JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TOWN HOMES DOWN THERE.

WE NEED TO REALLY TAKE A LOOK AT THIS LDC ON THE CBD BEFORE WE GET TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING DOWNTOWN BECAUSE WE'VE GOT ALL THIS HODGEPODGE AGAIN, AS I HATE TO SAY.

IT GOES BACK TO MY QUESTION, WAS THERE EVER ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT HISTORICAL PRESERVATION IN CONSTRUCTING THINGS? WHEN THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETS WITH DEVELOPERS SAY, "PLEASE HELP US PRESERVE THAT CHARACTER."

>> I'LL SPEAK TO A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS.

I THINK WHEN YOU WERE READING THROUGH THE SPECIFIC TASKS THAT ARE DELEGATED TO THIS DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, THERE'S ACTUALLY A PROVISION LATER ON IN THE LDC FOR DESIGNATING TAX EXEMPT STRUCTURES.

I THINK WHEN YOU'RE READING THOSE INJECTS POSITION, THEY DO FEEL LIKE CONTRAST.

BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CBD AS A WHOLE, THERE ARE TRUE STRUCTURES THAT WERE BUILT LONG AGO THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE, MAYBE NOT UNDER A STATE OR FEDERAL DESIGNATION, BUT CITY COUNCIL WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO SO.

WHEN I READ THAT, NUMBER 3,

[01:30:02]

THAT'S WHAT I THINK OF IS THE ABILITY OF CITY COUNCIL TO ACTUALLY MAKE A TAX EXEMPT STATUS IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

WHICH, IN MY FIVE YEARS OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT, AND I'M NOT SURE THE LAST TIME THAT WE HAVE.

BUT WHEN WE DID MEET WITH THE APPLICANT BEFORE DRC, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY FOCUSED IN ON WAS HARMONIZING WITH THE EXISTING SURROUNDINGS, WHICH IS DIFFICULT.

KNOWING THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES THERE AND THE ARCHITECTURE, THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THE OTHER SURROUNDING BUILDINGS.

WE DID HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, AND WHAT WE FOUND WAS THAT IN THE LDC THERE ARE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS.

SOME OF THE THINGS THAT DRC DID TALK ABOUT WAS THE PROMINENCE OF THE FRONT DOOR.

SO THE APPLICANT IN-BETWEEN THERE TWO DRC MEETINGS DID ADD A PROMINENT PORCH, WHICH HELPS BLEND THAT PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SPACE.

THEY DID ADD BAY WINDOWS IN ORDER TO HELP, AGAIN, ACCOMPLISH THE SAME GOALS.

THEY ADDED DELINEATIONS BETWEEN UNITS TO GET SOME RHYTHM AS YOU'RE WALKING DOWN THE STREET.

I DO HAVE SOME NOTES.

SHOULD COUNCIL DECIDE TO WANT TO TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT MORE TRADITIONAL ARCHITECTURE.

SPECIFIC PROVISIONS ABOUT WHAT CAN BE ASKED OF THE APPLICANT OTHER THAN A BROAD ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, SPECIFIC CHANGES THAT COULD BE MADE WITHIN THE ELEVATIONS FROM THAT POINT.

BUT WHEN THE DRC DID REVIEW IT, THEY DID ULTIMATELY APPROVE IT AND FEEL THAT IT WAS IN CONFORMANCE WITH THESE AVERAGING STANDARDS.

I STILL THINK YOUR OVERALL POINT WAS WELL TAKEN.

THAT'S WHY THE VISIONING PLAN IS HAPPENING, AND THE IMPLEMENTATION PART WOULD BE A REVISION TO THE CODE.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO PIGGYBACK OFF THAT FOR A SECOND IF I COULD.

DID THIS DEVELOPER MEET WITH THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE?

>> NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO.

>> WERE THEY ENCOURAGED TO?

>> AT THIS POINT, THE INITIAL APPLICATION CAME IN, IN JULY OF '21.

THAT WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DOWNTOWN'S STEERING PROCESS.

WHEN THEY CAME IN, THEY WERE SUBJECT TO THE EXISTING LDC PROVISIONS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THEY WERE NOT ENCOURAGED TO NECESSARILY MEET.

I KNOW THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME CONVERSATION WITH THE CONSULTANT AS FAR AS UNDERSTANDING WHAT EXISTING DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS WERE OUT THERE.

I CAN ASK THEM TO SPEAK TO THAT DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT THOSE NOTES YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT, [NOISE] THAT CHANGES CAN BE MADE.

>> SOUNDS LIKE THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING WHERE THIS ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE AND THERE WAS A TACIT PLEDGE TO GET SOME CITIZEN INPUT OR SOME DESIGN, EXCUSE ME, DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE INPUT.

DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING, WOULD THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE SAY HOW MANY INTERACTIONS THEY HAD ACTUALLY WITH THE SURROUNDING RESIDENTS? THAT WAS CERTAINLY PLEDGED.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF IT WAS ACTED UPON AND TO WHAT DEPTH. THAT'S IT.

>> ALL THE QUESTIONS I WAS GOING TO ASK IF THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE MET WITH THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE? THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD HAVE HANDLED THAT INTERNALLY AS A CITY VERSUS SENDING THE APPLICANT TO POINT A, B, C.

>> WELL, I'LL SAY THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE IS MOSTLY STAFF AND ALLOW THEM OR AROUND THEM ARE AIDED THE DSC.

THE TWO COMMITTEES HAVE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, LET'S SAY PEOPLE, A LOT OF THEM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

>> HAYLEY, WHAT IS THE CURRENT ZONING FOR THAT PROPERTY? > SURE. THE CURRENT ZONING IS CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT WHERE THEY'RE ASKING TO AMEND THE DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS.

THIS IS A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT WHERE THE DELINEATION WAS MADE BECAUSE IN SOME INSTANCES, WHETHER THAT'S EITHER AN INTENSITY OR LOCATION, THIS USE MIGHT MAKE SENSE.

>> WHAT CAN CURRENTLY BE BUILT THERE BY [INAUDIBLE]? [OVERLAPPING]

>> OFFICE, RETAIL ARE GREAT EXAMPLES.

URBAN RESIDENTIAL CAN ACTUALLY BE CONSTRUCTED BY [INAUDIBLE] PROVIDED THEY MEET BOTH THE PROVISIONS OF THE URBAN RESIDENTIAL STANDARDS, ANC, CBD STANDARDS.

>> HOW MANY UNITS OF URBAN RESIDENTIAL CAN BE PUT ON THAT PROPERTY?

>> IT'S JUST OVER AN ACRE.

IT WOULD BE JUST AROUND 40, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE.

THERE ARE OTHER PROVISIONS THAT WOULD LIKELY IMPACT THAT.

IF I LOOK AT JUST THE DENSITY WHICH IS CAPPED AT 32 UNITS AN ACRE, THAT WOULD BE THE ANSWER.

THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE TO MEET STRUCTURE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, AS WELL AS INTERIOR CLIMATE CONTROLLED CORRIDORS.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE FIRE ACCESS.

IT WOULD LIKELY BE MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN MEETING THAT DENSITY NUMBER IN ADDITION TO MAXIMUM HEIGHT LIMITS.

I SUSPECT IT WOULD NOT ACTUALLY REACH THAT HIGH IF THEY MET ALL OF THE OTHER STANDARDS.

[01:35:05]

>> IT'S PRETTY GOOD.

>> IF THEY MET ALL THE STANDARDS, DO YOU HAVE A BEST ESTIMATE AS TO WHAT NUMBER OF UNITS THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY?

>> I'M HONESTLY NOT SURE.

>> OKAY. FAIR ENOUGH. [LAUGHTER]

>> BASED ON MY GUESS, I THINK THEY WOULD AT LEAST DOUBLE WHAT'S THERE, IF NOT MORE. [OVERLAPPING] RIGHT. CORRECT.

>> I'LL LET YOU CALCULATE IT.

>> DAREN WAS NEXT.

>> I'M SORRY, DAREN.

>> I NEED TO GIVE HIM THE RIGHT.

>> YEAH. I JUST WANTED TO COME BACK TO COUNCIL MEMBER CORNETTE'S COMMENT; IF THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE CONSISTS OF SEVERAL OF THE SAME MEMBERS AS THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE, THEN THAT ACTUALLY STRENGTHENS THE DECISION IN MY MIND THAT THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE GAVE, WHICH WAS APPROVAL.

>> OF STAFF. I'M TALKING OF STAFF ONLY, WHERE THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE IS MAINLY MADE UP OF CITIZENS WITH STAFF ASSISTING.

THE DOWNTOWN REVIEW COMMITTEE IS MAINLY STAFF, I THINK WITH ONE CITIZEN?

>> TWO.

>> MY APOLOGIES TO.

I'M ALSO ON THAT BUT I DON'T GET TO VOTE, NEITHER.

THEY'RE SEPARATE BUT [OVERLAPPING] THERE'S SOME OF THE SOME PLAYERS.

>> IT'S CONVOLUTED.

THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR IMPROVEMENT IN THIS PROCESS.

>> ABSOLUTELY. I BROUGHT THAT UP IN [INAUDIBLE] NOT TOO LONG AGO, AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME THAT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING QUICK.

>> YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

>> LET ME JUST MAKE ONE QUICK COMMENT.

>> SURE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, ONE THING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AS A RESULT OF THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE IS THAT COMMITTEE IS GOING TO COME BACK, TURN IN A REPORT AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS OF WHAT TO DO TO THE PROCESS INTO THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE SPECIFICALLY TO BEEF UP AND STRAIGHTEN OUT A LOT OF THIS.

BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION IN THE ALDC ABOUT CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT AND WHAT YOU CAN DO HERE, WHAT YOU CAN'T DO THERE.

WE HAVE A LOT OF CLEANUP TO DO REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE HAD THAT DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE, BUT THIS GIVES US THE ABILITY TO DO IT AND DO IT RIGHT.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK IF WE LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE IS THAT WE NEED TO SHORE UP THE CBD PORTION OF THE ALDC.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN.

UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK IT IS WHAT IT IS.

IT NEEDS TO CUT DOWN LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, THIS STRUCTURE SO YOU CAN'T REALLY PUSH BACK.

THE ONLY THING AGAIN THAT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE CLEAR WAS THAT, WAS THERE A CONVERSATION ABOUT TRYING TO PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL TYPE OF FEATURES AND CHARACTERISTICS OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA? I GET IT THAT THERE'S NOT MUCH WE COULD DO OTHER THAN TO DEMAND IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU DRIVE DOWN TO THE CORNER AND YOU LOOK AT WHERE THAT'S GOING AND YOU LOOK ACROSS THE STREETS, THERE'S NOTHING HISTORICAL ABOUT THAT CORNER.

[LAUGHTER] I THINK WE JUST REALLY NEED TO TAP ON THE BRAKES AND GET IN FRONT OF THIS CBD PORTION OF THE ALDC.

PARTICULARLY IF SOMEBODY COMES DOWN ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE TRAIN DEPOT ON AUSTIN STREET, YOU KNOW HOW ALL THOSE BUILDINGS ARE? THEY ARE OLD.

IF SOMEBODY COMES IN THERE AND SAYS, "I WANT TO BUY THAT PROPERTY FOR A MILLION DOLLARS, AND WHAT I'M GOING TO PUT ON THERE IS TOWN HOMES," WELL, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO WHAT I CALL THE DOWNTOWN AREA, WHERE YOU REALLY WANT TO PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL NATURE OF THE DOWNTOWN.

AGAIN, WE'VE ALSO GOT TO DEFINE WHAT IS DOWNTOWN? I DON'T MEAN TO RANT, BUT IT IS AN ISSUE FOR ME BECAUSE I'M A HISTORIAN KIND OF GUY AND WE HAVE A GREAT HISTORY IN THIS CITY.

YOU KNOW THE OLD STONE DAM.

WHAT MADE OUR CITY IS STEAM LOCOMOTIVE, AND I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THAT HISTORY BEHIND.

>> [OVERLAPPING] MAYBE HOLD UP. [LAUGHTER] THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE OVER HERE.

DAREN, DID YOU GET SATISFIED ON YOUR COMMENTS? OKAY. CARL, DID YOU HAVE SOME COMMENTS?

>> YEAH. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT'S THE TOUGH THING.

IT'S HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

WHEN YOU HAVE A HODGEPODGE DOWNTOWN, YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

IT'S NOT LIKE IF YOU'RE IN BROOKLYN AND IT'S ALL BROWN STONES.

YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU CAN EMULATE, AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

THE FACT THAT IT'S ALL BRICKWORK, THAT'S A PLUS.

IT GIVES A LITTLE FANCIER FINISH, BUT UNTIL YOU DEFINE WHAT THAT IS DOWNTOWN, IT BECOMES MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.

DO YOU HOLD UP DEVELOPMENT OF WHAT COULD BE A GOOD PRODUCT? I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT ANSWER.

>> [INAUDIBLE] GOOD. [INAUDIBLE]?

[01:40:02]

>> SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED TO GO OVER THE ALDC WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE CBD AND ACTUALLY DEFINE WHAT WE WANT THERE AND WHAT WE DON'T WANT THERE.

WHAT WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE BUILT BY WRITING, WHAT WE DON'T, BUT EITHER WAY, WITH REGARD TO THIS 16 UNITS VERSUS ANYWHERE FROM 32-40, I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS WHERE I STAND ON THAT.

>> ANY OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE WE DO THE PUBLIC HEARING?

>> I'LL JUST SAY REAL QUICK, I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM PUBLIC COMMENTS.

I HAVE HALF A MIND TO MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE THIS UNTIL THEY TALK TO THE DSC.

I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO GO QUITE THAT FAR JUST YET, BUT I'M HIGHLY DISAPPOINTED THAT YET ANOTHER DEVELOPER CONTRACTOR IS COMING IN ALLEN, BETTER BLOCK, THREE YEARS, THIS DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE, WELL, YOUR COUNTLESS HOURS AND DOLLARS SPENT ON DEVELOPING THIS AND WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO FOLLOW THE PLAN.

WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO WAIT FOR THE PLAN.

>> BUT YOU ARE ON THE DSC, WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE SURE THAT IT HAPPENED?

>> WE NEED TO REDO THE ALDC, IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

THIS IS A COUNCIL THING, NOT A DSC THING.

>> NO, BUT YOU ARE ON THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AS WELL.

>> I'M A NON-VOTING MEMBER.

>> THAT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU'RE STILL [INAUDIBLE].

>> I [INAUDIBLE] CONCERNS.

I'M A NON-VOTING MEMBER.

NONETHELESS, SOONER THAN LATER, WE NEED TO GET THIS RESOLVED.

LIKE I SAID, I HAVE A HALF OF MIND TO TABLE THIS UNTIL THIS IS COMPLETED, SO I'M STILL DECIDING ON THAT.

>> DAREN?

>> HAILEY, WERE YOU FINISHED WITH THE PRESENTATION?

>> I CAN FINISH IT IN ABOUT 30 SECONDS. DON'T WORRY.

[LAUGHTER] SO THIS IS IF YOU'RE ON BOYD, THIS IS THE ELEVATION YOU'LL SEE.

THERE'S STILL SOME FENESTRATION ON SOME WINDOWS.

THIS IS THE ELEVATION FROM THE ALLEY.

THIS IS ALL OF THE GARAGES.

AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL GOING TO BE CENTERED IN THE DEVELOPMENT.

DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS ARE SIMPLE, AS I EXPLAINED EARLIER, THERE'S NO CHANGES, JUST ADOPTION OF THE EXHIBITS AS WE'VE REFERENCED.

P&Z DID RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUESTS AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL AS WELL. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR HAILEY? I UNDERSTAND THE PROPONENT IS HERE, BUT THEY DO NOT WISH TO SPEAK.

>> THEY ARE AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AS WE HAVE FOLLOW-UP.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE THE PUBLIC HEARING? IF NOT, THANK YOU, HAILEY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, HAILEY.

>> [NOISE] I'LL GO AHEAD AND CALL THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AND I DO HAVE SOME CARDS.

I WILL RECALL FAHIM KHAN WHO CAME UP EARLIER, GOT YOU IN THE RIGHT STACK THIS TIME IN YOUR 400 CHISHOLM PLACE, SUITE 310 FROM PLANO 75015.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, STAFF, AND THE CITIZEN.

MY NAME IS FAHIM KHAN. I'M THE ARCHITECT OF THIS PROJECT.

I THINK HAILEY DID A GREAT PRESENTATION AND I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT ALL THESE THINGS.

ONLY THING I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS AND TELL YOU THAT WE'RE WORKING ON THIS PROJECT FOR THE LAST ONE YEAR AND WE WENT THROUGH ALL THE CITY ORDINANCE, CITY CODE, CITY REGULATIONS, AND WE WENT BEYOND THE REQUIREMENTS.

WE HAVE DSC MEETING TWICE.

THEY'VE REVIEWED OUR DRAWINGS AND ELEVATIONS, THEY APPROVED IT.

WENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY APPROVED IT.

NOW WE ARE HERE AND ASKING FOR YOUR APPROVAL.

I KNOW YOU DISCUSSED ABOUT THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION BUT TO ME, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE CITY OF ALLEN TO [INAUDIBLE] TO A HISTORIC PRESERVATION OR HISTORIC BUILDING.

RECENTLY, I HAVE DONE ONE GOOD PROJECT IN DENTON, DOWNTOWN.

IT WAS 1932 LOOP CENTER.

I PRESERVED IT. MY CLIENT MADE IT AS A RESTAURANT.

WE PRESERVED ALL OF THE ARCHITECTURE ELEMENTS, WHAT WE HAVE THERE FROM 1932.

BUT FOR THIS PROJECT, THIS IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF PROJECT, THE NEW BUILDING.

WHEN WE DID THE STUDY ON THESE AREAS, I FOUND ONE NEW BUILDING AT THE LIBRARY.

I CANNOT PICK ANYTHING FROM THERE BECAUSE IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT KIND OF VIEWS, AND OTHER BUILDINGS ON THE NORTH SIDE TO RESIDENCE, IT'S SIDE IS A RAILROAD.

SOUTH SIDE IS, I THINK A TILE SHOP OR SOMETHING.

I MET WITH THIS GENTLEMAN AND TALKED TO THEM.

HE'S VERY HAPPY. ON THE WEST SIDE, THERE IS ONE STORY OFFICE BUILDINGS.

SO TO ME, IF I KNEW THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES I HAVE TO FOLLOW, WE COULD DISCUSS EARLIER, BUT WE DIDN'T GET ANY GUIDELINE.

WE PREPARED THE DRAWING BASED ON OUR BEST JUDGMENT, IT FULFILLED MY CLIENT'S REQUIREMENT AND IT COMPLIES WITH ALL THE CITY ORDINANCE AND THE CODES. [INAUDIBLE]. [NOISE]

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTION FOR ME?

>> NO. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?

>> YOU'RE THE DEVELOPER?

>> I'M THE ARCHITECT.

>> ARCHITECT?

>> YES.

>> WHY DID YOU NOT SEEK THE COUNSEL OF THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE?

>> WHEN WE TOOK THE PROJECT LAST YEAR, WE WERE NOT INFORMED THAT WE HAVE TO TALK TO THE CITY.

>> MS. HAILEY JUST SAT HERE AND SAID, "YES."

[01:45:02]

MS. HAILEY STOOD HERE AND SAID THAT YOU WERE ADVISED TO TALK TO THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE.

>> NO. WE TALKED TO THE DSC MEMBERS.

>> BUT WHY NOT THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE?

>> WERE WE INFORMED THAT WE HAVE TO? NO, [INAUDIBLE].

>> WHEN STANTEC CAME ON BOARD TO HELP THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE MANAGE THE PROCESS, WE DID INFORM STANTEC OF THE OPEN DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS, BUT WE DID NOT INFORM THE APPLICANT THAT THEY NEEDED TO DIRECTLY REACH OUT TO STANTEC NECESSARILY.

SO WE HAD EXPECTED THAT IF STANTEC WANTED TO REACH OUT TO THE OPEN DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.

>> [OVERLAPPING]. OKAY. [INAUDIBLE], YOU SAID EARLIER THAT YOU.

>> I APOLOGIZE IF I WAS CONFUSING.

>> OKAY.

>> WHAT I HAD INTENDED TO SAY IS THAT WE DID NOT DIRECTLY REQUIRE THEM TO REACH OUT TO THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE.

>> YOU DID NOT REQUIRE THEM, BUT YOU DID SAY, "HEY.

YOU MAY WANT TO GO DO THIS." THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING.

>> AT THE TIME THAT THEY INITIALLY SUBMITTED THE SUP APPLICATION, THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE WAS JUST GETTING STARTED.

SO THAT WAS AROUND EARLY JULY, AND TRULY WHEN THE APPLICATION CAME IN, WE KNEW THAT THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE EXISTING ALDC REQUIREMENTS.

WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL, IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING TO BE REQUIRED OF THE APPLICATION.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTION FOR ME?

>> I THINK WE'RE GOOD NOW.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT. NEXT WE HAVE [INAUDIBLE].

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS YOUR REAL NAME [LAUGHTER], 403 WEST COATS DRIVE, ALLEN, 75013.

[NOISE]

>> GOOD EVENING, MR. MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, MR. L. LANGER, MS. GEORGE, AND YES, THAT IS MY ADDRESS.

[LAUGHTER] I'M HERE TONIGHT TO SPEAK ABOUT THE TOWNHOME PROJECT PLAN FOR THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT AND THE LACK OF OVERSIGHT BY THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AND FOLLOWING SOME OF THEIR OWN GUIDELINES AND CRITERIA FOR APPROVING THIS PROJECT.

THIS COMMITTEE IS MADE UP OF FIVE KNOWLEDGEABLE CITY DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS PLUS TWO CITIZENS.

MR. CARBON SAID IS THE CHAIR AND YOU KNOW ALL OF THEM.

WHEN THIS PROJECT FIRST CAME BEFORE THE COMMITTEE LAST YEAR, I'M TOLD THE OWNER WAS ASKED TO WAIT FOR THE DOWNTOWN STEERING COMMITTEE FINAL REPORT THIS YEAR AND THAT PERSON REFUSED.

THEN THEY WERE GIVEN A LIST OF FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS TO CHANGES MADE ACCORDING TO THE ALDC, WHICH INCLUDED REQUIREMENTS UNDER SECTION 4.08.19.2.C, CALLED PURPOSE, AND THEIR APPROVAL IS BASED UPON OTHER THINGS AND I QUOTE, "CONCERNED WITH NOT ONLY THE SPECIFIC PROJECT DESIGN, BUT ALSO EFFECT ON THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES.

MAJOR MODIFICATIONS WILL ENHANCE THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OF THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

PRESERVE THE NATURAL, HISTORIC, AND ARCHITECTURAL QUALITIES OF THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, ESTABLISHED AND ENHANCE AESTHETIC AND ARCHITECTURAL COMPATIBILITY WITHIN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

ENSURE THAT BUILDINGS DESIGNS ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE CHARACTERISTICS OR THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT IN TERMS OF SCALE, MASS, BUILDING PATTERNS, FACADE ARTICULATION, AND INCORPORATING DESIGN ELEMENTS OF PYRAMIDAL ARCHITECTURAL STYLES." THEN UNDER SECTION 4.08.19.2.G.2 MORE, I QUOTE, "NEW BUILDINGS SHOULD INCORPORATE TRADITIONAL DESIGN ELEMENTS.

I'M GOING TO REPEAT THAT.

NEW BUILDINGS SHOULD INCORPORATE TRADITIONAL DESIGN ELEMENTS.

THESE THINGS ARE MENTIONED IN FOUR DIFFERENT TIMES.

THERE IS NOTHING TRADITIONAL ABOUT THIS UGLY DESIGN.

IT LOOKS LIKE APARTMENTS THAT THEY DECIDED TO NAME TOWNHOMES TO APPEAL TO PROSPECTIVE TENANTS AND IS DEFINITELY NOT AESTHETIC PLEASING TO THE EYE.

IT DOES NOT ENHANCE THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OR QUALITIES OF THE CBD.

AT THE SECOND DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING, THEY DID MAKE SOME CHANGES, BUT NO TRADITIONAL DESIGN IN EXTERIOR AND I'M SURE THE ARCHITECT KNOWS WHAT TRADITIONAL MEANS.

WHEN I SPOKE AT THE P&C MEETING ON MAY 3RD, BROUGHT UP OUT ALL OF THESE AND THE ARCHITECTS SAID HE HAD NOTHING TO COMPARE IT TO IN THE CBD.

I WONDER IF HE DROVE AROUND AT CBD TO LOOK BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO COMPARE IT TO.

WHEN YOU'RE NOT SURE ABOUT A DESIGN, THEN YOU STICK WITH SOMETHING CLASSIC AND TRADITIONAL

[01:50:01]

LOOKS BECAUSE THAT ALWAYS WORKS AND HE'S INVITING.

>> I'M SORRY, YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED.

>> CAN I MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT?

>> ONE QUICK COMMENT.

>> I ASKED YOU TONIGHT TO REMAND THIS PROJECT BACK TO THE DESIGN REMOVED COMMITTEE WITH AN AMENDMENT FOR THE ARCHITECT TO CHANGE THE EXTERIOR DESIGN TO TRADITIONAL LOOK THAT IS INVITING AND WILL COMPLEMENT ALL MODERN ALLEN PUBLIC LIBRARY AND OTHER BUILDINGS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU DIDDIE. NEXT I HAVE I BELIEVE IT'S ONE OF THE PROPONENTS, DR. HAWK.

IS THAT CORRECT? 1300 EAST BETHANY ALLEN, 75 W2.

>> YES. THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.

THANK YOU ALL HONORABLE COUNCIL MEMBERS.

MY NAME IS DR. HAWK.

LIKE SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN I DECIDED TO DO MY PET HOSPITAL DOWN THE ROAD.

THAT WAS A JUNKYARD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VERY HIGHLY DENSE POPULATED AREA.

NOT ONLY POPULATED IS ALSO IN FONT OF A GOVERNMENT OFFICE BUILDING IN FRONT OF THE FIRE SERVICE DEPARTMENT.

PROBABLY SOME OF YOU CAN REMEMBER IT WAS A TOTAL JUNKYARD ENCLOSED BY SOME FENCE, SO I APPLIED FOR THE PET HOSPITAL THERE WAS NO JOINING.

NOW LOOK AT THAT PLACE, HOW IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY APPRECIATE I BROUGHT THE BUSINESS, I BOUGHT THE AREA IN HIGHLIGHT.

LIKE A BENEFIT POINT OF VIEW, IF YOU THINK YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE MUCH MORE MONEY IF YOU BUILD A APARTMENT, IS THE MIXED USE APARTMENT LIKE A FLOOR PART WILL BE SHOPPING CENTER AND THEN THE FIRST FLOOR, SECOND FLOOR, THIRD FLOOR CAN BE APARTMENT.

ANY DEVELOPER CAN MAKE MORE MONEY.

I DID NOT LOOK FOR THAT ONE AND I DISCUSSED WITH CITY OFFICIAL IN A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT.

THEY ACTUALLY SAID, SEE LIKE HOW THE SURROUNDING PEOPLE LIKE REACT.

I TALKED TO ALMOST EVERYONE AND THEN FINALLY, I DECIDED TO GO FOR TOWNHOME.

I ALSO DISCUSSED WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

THEY ALSO ENCOURAGE YES ACTUALLY, PEOPLE DOES NOT LIKE TO SEE THE CROWDED DOWNTOWN.

BETTER TOWNHOME WILL BE THE BEST APPROACH.

I DECIDED TO DO TOWNHOME.

NOW, TRADITIONAL VIEW OR HISTORY PRESERVATION, A LOT OF THINGS CAN COME UP.

I WAS NOT INFORMED ABOUT THOSE AT ALL.

I WAS NOT INFORMED ABOUT THE STEERING COMMITTEE.

I WAS NOT INFORMED THE ALLEN REVITALIZATION COMMITTEE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT I TRIED TO STUDY IT.

WHAT PEOPLE ASK, I HAVE ALL THESE COMMENTS HERE.

I PRINTED A 106 COMMENTS FROM THE ALLEN REVITALIZATION WEBSITE.

EVERYBODY ASKING FOR WALKING SPACE, DOG WALKING SPACE, SEATING ARRANGEMENT, BEACH, AT BOND, EVERYTHING.

IN MY PROJECT, I PUT EVERYTHING, KIDS PLAYING AREA, SURROUNDING WALKING AREA, SEATING AREA, IT WILL LOST UP PLEASE EVERYTHING I PUT IN, IF YOU KINDLY SEE THIS MINUTE, YOU'LL SEE EVERYTHING IS THERE, EVERY COMPONENT IS THERE.

YES. ONE THING YOU CAN SAY, IT'S NOT A TRADITIONAL BUILDING, NOT A HISTORY BUILDING.

THERE'S NO HISTORY BUILDING IN THE CBD AREA.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CBD.

IF I GO TO DALLAS DOWNTOWN, THERE ARE SOME OLD BUILDING.

IF WE GO FORTS DOWNTOWN, YOU WILL SEE VERY MODERN BUILDING.

YOU WILL SEE VERY HISTORIC BUILDING.

EVERY DOWNTOWN HAS A TWO DIFFERENT COMPONENT.

OLDER BUILDING AND ANOTHER ONE IS A NEWER BUILDING.

MY ONE IS NEITHER ORDER NOR VERY NEW.

IT'S LIKE A MIXED TYPE OF IMPRESSION.

I BELIEVE PEOPLE MAY TAKE,

[01:55:02]

OKAY, SO I BELIEVE WE'RE BUILDING.

SOME PEOPLE SAY ALWAYS VERY FINE FANTASTIC BUILDING.

SOME PEOPLE CAN SAY UGLY.

SOME PEOPLE CAN SAY, I CANNOT SATISFY A 100 PERCENT PEOPLE.

BUT ONE PLUS YEARS I HAVE BEEN RUNNING AND THEN DID A LOT OF THINGS.

>> I'M SORRY YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED.

>> I'M DONE, ALMOST DONE.

I BELIEVE THIS IS MINE.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> YOU'RE THE PROPONENT AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEAK DURING PUBLIC SESSION LIKE THIS.

YOU CAN WAIT UNTIL WE CLOSE IT AND YOU WILL STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> SORRY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANKS. NEXT I HAVE CHRISTIE WOODARD WHO DOES NOT WISH TO SPEAK, BUT WANTS TO BE RECORDED IN SUPPORT OF THIS REQUEST.

I BELIEVE THE ADDRESSES 301 NORTH GREENVILLE, APARTMENT 192 ALLEN, 75 W2.

THEN I HAVE PAMELA ACKERMAN WHO ALSO DOES NOT WISH TO SPEAK BUT WANTS TO BE RECORDED IN SUPPORT OF THIS.

SHE'S A 738 LIVINGSTON DRIVE.

ALLEN, 75 W2.

THAT'S ALL THE CARDS THAT I HAVE.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK FOR IT GETS THIS REQUEST? IF YOU DO, PLEASE COME FORWARD, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

I'M NOT SEEING ANYONE ELSE COMING FORWARD.

WE'LL GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND TURN THE MATTER BACK OVER TO THE COUNCIL. COMMENTS?

>> I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I'M CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS CASE REMARKS AND I THINK PEOPLE KNOW WHERE I STAND AS FAR AS PRESERVING THE HISTORICAL STRUCTURE AND THANK YOU, SIR, FOR YOUR COMMENTS AS WELL.

UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THE HAIL DC AND AS IT'S WRITTEN, IT IS WHAT IT IS.

I TALKED ABOUT WHAT THAT CORNER SHOWS AND IT'S JUST THERE'S NO CONSISTENCY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SECTION G, THE DESIGN PLAN STANDARDS OR THE CBD AND OR THE ALDC.

IT SAYS EVERY FACADE OF A NEW BUILDING OR STRUCTURE CONSTRUCTED WITHIN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT WILL PRESENT AN UNINTERRUPTED FACE SIMILAR AND LINK TO OTHER STRUCTURES OF THE SAME ARCHITECTURAL STYLE.

WELL, THERE'S NONE OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

FOR US TO SUGGEST THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN WE WANT IT, WHAT WOULD THEY DO TO BE CONSISTENT? IT GOES ON AND SAYS CONFORMANCE WITH THE PRE-DOMINANT ARCHITECTURAL STYLE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A COHESIVE STREETS CAPE AND APPEARANCE.

WELL, I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY BUILT THERE.

THERE WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING COHESIVE.

IT'S JUST IT IS WHAT IT IS.

IT'S THE ALDC IS THE ALDC AND I GET IT.

I KNOW I'M UP HERE SAYING, MAN, I WANT TO PRESERVE THEIR HISTORICAL STRUCTURE BUT I WOULD, GUESS I'M COMPROMISING MY PRINCIPLES A BIT.

BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS AND MAYBE PERHAPS SHAME ON US FOR NOT HAVING SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC IN THE CODE.

BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.

WHAT THEY'RE SUGGESTING AND RECOMMENDING FITS THE AREA, FITS THE CODE AND FITS THE CBD REGULATIONS.

I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT BUT IT'S NOT A WHOLE LOT I CAN DO ABOUT IT.

>> THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IS THAT PARTICULAR LOT OF LAND HAS BEEN VACANT FOR THE BETTER PART OF THREE DECADES.

GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE '90S, THE OFFICE BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT HOUSED A DAYCARE CENTER THAT ACTUALLY USED THAT FIELD AS THE PLAYGROUND UP UNTIL IT WAS FORCED TO CLOSE IN 2008.

TO YOUR POINT, THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THERE TO COMPARE IT WITH.

I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR HAYLEY, THOUGH.

ASSUMING COUNCIL VOTES TO APPROVE THIS, WILL THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE REMOVE THE BEREICH FOR MULTIFAMILY AT THAT POINT?

>> NO. WHAT IS BEFORE COUNCIL TONIGHT IS JUST THE SPECIFIC USE PERMIT FOR THE TOWN HOME USE.

WHAT I WOULD EXPECT FROM THE DSC PROCESS AND THE VISION PLAN WOULD BE A SUBSEQUENT UPDATE TO THE ON LAND LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WHICH WOULD ADDRESS ANY USES, CHANGES TO ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING TONIGHT.

THAT WOULD BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHATEVER PLAN IS BROUGHT BEFORE AND ADOPTED BY COUNCIL IN JUNE.

TONIGHT IS JUST THE SEP FOR THE TOWN HOMES THAT IS HERE ON THIS PLOT OF LAND.

>> DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO REMOVE THE BEREICH FOR APARTMENTS FOR THIS CHUNK OF LAND IN THE PROCESS OF APPROVING THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT?

>> I DON T THINK YOU DO IN THIS.

NOT THE WAY IT'S PRESENTED, IT DOES NOT.

THEY DIDN'T ASK FOR IT.

>> LET'S ACTUALLY GO BACK [INAUDIBLE]

[02:00:04]

>> IF EITHER COUNCIL CHOSE TO NOT APPROVE THIS TONIGHT AND IF ONE DAY SOMEBODY ELSE CAME IN AND WANTED TO DEVELOP APARTMENTS, URBAN RESIDENTIAL BY RIGHT AND MET ALL OF THE STANDARDS, TECHNICALLY THAT WOULD GO TO THE DOWNTOWN OR THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE.

IF THEY MET ALL OF THE STANDARDS THERE AND ALL OF THE STANDARDS IN THE ALDC, IT WOULD NOT BE SUBJECT TO COUNCIL'S DISCRETION.

>> IF I MAY ASK, HOW SOON COMPARED TO GROUND ON THIS IF IT GETS APPROVED?

>> YES. I UNDERSTAND FROM MY CLIENT THAT MOMENT HE GETS THE PERMIT HE'LL START DOING THE CONSTRUCTION. GROUND BREAK.

>> I'M SORRY.

>>THE MOMENT THEY GET THE PERMISSION, THEN THEY WILL START DOING THE GROUND BREAKING.

>> YOU'RE PREPARED AS SOON AS WE APPROVE?

>> YES.

>> ANYONE ELSE?

>> I JUST WANT TO SAY, I'M NOT UPSET AT THE LANDLORD.

I'M HOPING THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE SPEAR THAT REALLY KICKS OFF OUR CBD.

IN THE SAME ASPECT, WE GOT TO GET IT RIGHT BECAUSE THIS IS PROBABLY THE TIP OF THE SPEAR THAT IS GOING TO KICK OFF OUR CBD.

BUT LIKE CHRIS WAS TALKING, IT IS WHAT IT IS, IS THE ALDC.

WE GOT TO GO BY THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS WHAT HE HAS RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THIS JUST IMPRESSES THE URGENCY THAT WE NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING FOR THE CBD THAT'S MORE COHERENT, MORE DIRECTED, MORE UNDERSTANDABLE.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK HERE BECAUSE I'M SPLIT. I JUST DON'T KNOW.

>> CURL?

>> I WOULD SAY THAT IF WE JUST LOOK AT THE PROCESS AS IT IS, THEY WENT THROUGH ALL, THEY FOLLOW THE CODE THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW.

THEY WENT THROUGH THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE.

WITHOUT HAVING A MODEL FOR WHAT HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE IS A PROJECT ON HIS OWN, IN MY OPINION, STANDS AS IS.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD VOTE TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THAT PROJECT BASED ON THOSE PRINCIPLES.

>> ANYONE ELSE? I DID HAVE A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS FOR YOU, HAYLEY.

SOME OF THEM ARE PRETTY MINOR, BUT ARE THE UTILITIES GOING TO BE IMPROVED ON BUTLER AND BOYD WHEN THEY GO AHEAD AND PAY THAT CONCRETE OR WILL THEY BE OBLIGATED TO DO THAT?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE SEEN A FULL UTILITY PLAN AT THIS POINT.

THERE WOULD ALSO BE THE ALLEY.

WE WOULD STILL HAVE TO GET WATER AND SEWER TO THOSE HOMES THAT FACE THE DARK RIGHT-OF-WAY.

I IMAGINE THE ALLEY MAY BE USED FOR PART OF THAT, BUT WE'VE FIGURED THAT OUT LATER IN THE PROCESS.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THEN THAT LAND TO THE NORTH, IS THAT CURRENTLY THE CITY RIGHT-OF-WAY AND WILL REMAIN THAT?

>> YES. COAT DRIVE RIGHT-OF-WAY EXTENDS ALL THE WAY TO THE DARK RIGHT-OF-WAY SO IT WILL REMAIN RIGHT-OF-WAY AND A PORTION OF THAT WOULD BE IMPROVED FOR THE ALLEY.

>> OKAY. I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU ADDRESSED THE OPEN SPACE BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING CRITICAL WHENEVER YOU DO A RESIDENTIAL PROJECT.

SORRY, I TOUCH MY SCREEN IN FLASH.

THE LAST QUESTION I HAD WAS IN THE ELEVATIONS, IT APPEARED THAT THEY HAD SOME, NOT THESE BUT ANOTHER ONE THAT YOU HAD ONE WHERE IT LOOKED LIKE FENCING OR SOME BARRIER.

DOES THAT MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE LIKE A PATIO ON THE ROOF OR IS THAT JUST STRICTLY FOR SAFETY?

>> IT IS AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT ONLY.

THAT DID COME UP DURING THE DRC MEETING, SO IT'S JUST A DECORATIVE ELEMENT ONLY TO ADD A DIFFERENCE.

>> OKAY. ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ALL I HAD.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A FEW COMMENTS BEYOND THAT.

THIS IS A NEW BUILDING AND LIKE EVERYBODY HAS ALREADY SAID, IT'S IN AN AREA THAT'S IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT HISTORICAL RIGHT THERE.

MAYBE THE DIRT'S HISTORICAL, BUT THERE'S NO BUILDING AROUND IT THAT'S HISTORICAL AND IT IS WHAT IT IS.

I THINK SOMETIMES WE TAKE SOME OF THE STUFF AT ALDC OUT OF CONTEXT THAT YOU READ ALL THAT STUFF AND SAY, WELL, IT MEANS THIS AND IT MEANS THAT.

I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THAT'S THE CASE IN THIS SITUATION BECAUSE I DON T THINK THAT THE ALDC WAS INTENDED TO SAY EVERYTHING IN THE CBD IS GOING TO LOOK HISTORICAL, HAS TO BE BUILT TO LOOK HISTORICAL.

I THINK BASICALLY WHAT IT WAS TRYING TO SAY IS THAT, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT APPEARS TO BE HISTORICAL, HAS BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME, THEN GET WITH THE CITY AND TRY TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO WHAT THAT IS.

THEN IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THOSE HISTORICAL COMPONENTS THAT ARE SIDE-BY-SIDE,

[02:05:01]

I.E, MAIN STREET BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHERE OUR HISTORICAL AREA IS.

THEN YOU DECIDE, HEY, YOU'RE PUTTING IN A BUILDING IN-BETWEEN TWO HISTORICAL BUILDINGS.

YOU NEED TO LOOK HISTORICAL.

I THINK THAT'S THE INTENT JUST TO CLARIFY FOR EVERYBODY HERE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S INTENDED TO SAY, HEY, IF YOU GO ALL THE WAY TO THE WEST, YOU'VE GOT TO BE HISTORICAL TOO.

THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE AND I DON T THINK THAT'S THE INTENT.

BUT JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS CLEAR.

I HEARD A COMMENT ABOUT TRADITIONAL DESIGN NOT BEING HISTORICAL.

I THINK THAT'S BY DEFINITION, THAT'S CORRECT.

TRADITIONAL, DOES IT MEAN HISTORICAL.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT.

BUT AS BEN SAID, ONE LAST POINT, AND THAT IS, THESE ARE TOWN HOMES.

THIS IS NOT MULTI-FAMILY, I.E, APARTMENTS, THIS IS OWNER-OCCUPIED.

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A BUNCH OF RENTERS.

PEOPLE COME IN AND GO AND THESE ARE PLACES THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUY.

THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE IN AND HOPEFULLY THEY'LL LIVE IN THEM FOR A LONG TIME AND BE THERE WHEN WE DO ALL THE OTHER GREAT THINGS IN THE DOWNTOWN TO MAKE IT A GREAT PLACE.

WITH THAT, THOSE ARE THE LAST OF MY COMMENTS AND I WOULD TURN THE ITEM OVER TO THE COUNCIL AND ENTERTAIN A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR ACTION.

>> WE NEED AN ORDINANCE NUMBER.

>> ORDINANCE NUMBER 3916-5-22.

>> MAYOR, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ORDINANCE NUMBER 3916-5-22.

>> I'LL SECOND.

>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND.

DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE VOTING ON? IF SO, PLEASE CAST YOUR BALLOT NOW.

IS THAT INTENDED OR? I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IS AFTER THE LAST TIME.

>> UNDERSTOOD.

>> THANK YOU. SO THAT ITEM PASSES SIX TO ONE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT COUNCIL.

GOOD LUCK TO THE PROPONENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

[6.3 Conduct a public hearing and adopt an Ordinance to establish a Planned Development Zoning District with a Base Zoning of Light Industrial, Corridor Commercial, and Townhome and to adopt Development Regulations, Zoning Exhibit, Concept Plan, and Building Elevations for approximately 84.3632 acres in the George Fitzhugh survey generally located at the northwest corner of Chelsea Boulevard and Ridgeview Drive.]

>> WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS ITEM 6.3, WHICH IS TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND ADOPT AN ORDINANCE TO ESTABLISH A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT ZONING DISTRICT AND A BASE ZONING OF LIGHT INDUSTRIAL CORRIDOR COMMERCIAL IN TOWNHOME, AND TO ADOPT DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, ZONING EXHIBIT, CONCEPT PLAN, AND BUILDING ELEVATIONS FOR APPROXIMATELY 84.3632 ACRES IN THE GEORGE FITZHUGH SURVEY, GENERALLY LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF CHELSEA BOULEVARD IN RIDGEVIEW DRIVE AND WE HAVE OUR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR MARK [INAUDIBLE] MAKING THE PRESENTATION. GOOD EVENING MARK.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR AND MEMBERS OF COUNCIL.

I'M JUST TRYING TO SKIP TO THE END OF THE MEETING.

SORRY. I DIDN'T KNOW, I WILL JUST READ INTO THE RECORD.

YOU CAN SEE THE GENERAL LOCATION.

THIS PROPERTY I THINK YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, BACK TO COUNCIL IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR THE NORTHEAST QUADRANT OF THE CITY.

LITTLE CLOSER VIEW AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF RIDGEVIEW IN CHELSEA.

THIS OUTLINE DOES REPRESENT THE ENTIRE PROPERTY THE PRIOR ZONING ACTION, MOLDING INCORPORATED THE ROUGHLY THE WEST TWO-THIRDS SURROUNDING ZONING FOR THIS PROPERTY TO THE WEST OR PD92 COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR TO THE EAST ACROSS CHELSEA'S PD-139 MIX USE BASE, AND THEN TO THE SOUTH IS SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND PG-13 WOULD BE ZONING OF R5 AND R6.

THESE ARE THE THREE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THE PROPERTY.

THE INDUSTRIAL COMPONENT OUTLINED IN PURPLE, TO THE NORTHEAST IS THE COMMERCIAL COMPONENT OUTLINED IN RED AND THE SOUTHEAST IS THE TOWNHOME COMPONENT OUTLINED IN BROWN.

I'LL GO INTO THE TWO NEW COMPONENTS IN A MOMENT.

I'LL USE THIS IMAGE JUST TO TALK ABOUT THE INDUSTRIAL.